The chicken things stands out. The idea of an animal being domesticated but not eaten for a thousand years is striking. I'd expect most domestications were specifically for food, of animals we already hunted or trapped.
Is there any evidence for egg consumption? Would that be likely to show up in the archeology?
It's a great question. I can't recall seeing any excavated evidence for egg consumption, most likely the shells would degrade very quickly or even ground up and used for other purposes. It's possible perhaps with close genetic studies to see when chickens began to be selected for laying?
that was also my question. when does egg consumption enter the picture? i've seen some images of roosters in ancient artwork, so these may have had symbolic or religious significance, but what about hens?
As the Chickens were not eaten and buried with people this would suggest that these were Game birds for Cockfighting. Game birds extended from across Asia to Europe and are still bred and exhibited. You get few eggs from them and little meat. The British breeds were the most aggressive and successful until banned from fighting.
This is a fascinating overview. However, it is not possible to talk about finds in Israel dating back 7,000 years since Israel has only existed for 75 years. And the first Jews to set up camp in Palestine, after arriving from what is now Iraq, were the Judeans around 3,000 years ago. This has been translated from Egyptian hieroglyphs, as have references to Palestine and Palestinians, 5,000 years ago. Surely in terms of archaeology the Palestinians should not be written out of history because of a colonial venture less than a century ago? Not that evidence of figs in Palestine should be surprising given the history of olives, vineyards and architecture in this country.
To be accurate neither the modern Palestinians not Israelis would be represented in Neolithic archaeological finds, but it is standard practice to refer to the modern territory where the excavation took place.
When I have read about ancient Babylon, now in a country called Iraq, reference is usually made to its origin in Mesopotamia. It may well be standard practice today to never use the word Palestine, but as an avid reader of archaeology I do not believe it is standard practice per se:
Possibly. But Middle Eastern populations have always come and gone in waves. One thing is certain, the European colonists who became Israelis are not descendants of pre-existing populations.
We know there were people called Palestinians in 1947 and we know around a million were driven out by Zionist armies with hundreds of thousands killed. We know that 530 towns and villages were eradicated by the Zionist soldiers. So, sure, some of those people may not have had an ancestry reaching back to ancient times, but some would. Apart from which, how does it matter?
These artefacts are being found in what is ancient Palestine, a land which has existed for 5,000 years. They are not Israeli artefacts, they are Palestinian artefacts.
I know from past experience that trying to point out the complexities of history is usually pointless, but around half of Israeli Jews are not from Europe, but refugees from Muslim lands. They received Israeli citizenship. The Palestinians were not accepted as citizens of Arab countries because those countries preferred to keep Palestinians as stateless sticks to beat Israel with. The only case of such population “swaps” in the C20th when a set of refugees was denied citizenship by their ethno-religious confreres.
Nice try, zionist. As you well know, the reason many jews chose to leave Arab countries was the campaign of Mossad terrorism against those countries, in some cases waged with local jewish help, aimed at driving them out to give the Ashkenazi invaders plenty of cannon fodder to oppress the sole indigenous (Palestinian) inhabitants of 'israel'.
I doubt it is half but of course Ashkenazi, who are northern European Jews, and Sephardim, southern Europe and the Middle East. And the Ashkenazi run the show and discriminate against the Sephardim and all discriminate against non-Jews.
Why should the Christian and Muslim Palestinians have had to leave their land just because some Zionists arrived to set up their own State? And let us be clear, Israel only has a 'right'to the UN Mandated borders and even they have never been tested in a court of law. Israel occupies and colonises all of Palestine and denies 6 million people human and civil rights.
Wikipedia is not accepted as a source by any respectable university in the world and on many topics, particularly Israel, is pure propaganda. But yes, a complex history and complex topic and none of it is relevant to the fact that Israel occupies all of Palestine and has no right to do so, certainly not without creating one state with equal rights for all.
Moreover, the world pays the Palestinians not to make peace with Israel. They are the world’s only hereditary refugees, because if the stop being refugees they lose hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Hence the refusal to give up the “right of return”, which means no peace with Israel is achievable. Hence also, there have been a series of Israeli peace proposals which get nowhere because the UNRWA money would go away. Arafat’s refusal to countenance anything that risked the UNRWA money essentially destroyed the Israeli left (and his credibility with the US) and gave the “changing facts on the ground” policy way more purchase within Israel.
And Wikipedia is hardly “pure propaganda”. Indeed, if anything the pressure is in the other direction.
According to the UN it does have a right to exist. Which various Arab countries have recognised. None of which requires endorsement of any part of Israeli policy.
Wiki is propaganda on this topic. Nothing from Wikipedia on Israel can be trusted.
And I do not dispute the right of Israel to exist in Palestine as a nation founded through colonisation.
I do dispute the right of Israel to exist as an apartheid State which denies justice, freedom, reparation and human and civil rights to the indigenous people of the land it has colonised.
And, as yet not defended in a court of law, the only borders Israel could claim remain the UN mandate. Israel currently occupies all of Palestine including Jerusalem.
If Australia, Canada or the US did to their indigenous people what Israel does in Palestine there would be outrage and rightly so. You cannot defend the indefensible.
The chicken things stands out. The idea of an animal being domesticated but not eaten for a thousand years is striking. I'd expect most domestications were specifically for food, of animals we already hunted or trapped.
Is there any evidence for egg consumption? Would that be likely to show up in the archeology?
It's a great question. I can't recall seeing any excavated evidence for egg consumption, most likely the shells would degrade very quickly or even ground up and used for other purposes. It's possible perhaps with close genetic studies to see when chickens began to be selected for laying?
that was also my question. when does egg consumption enter the picture? i've seen some images of roosters in ancient artwork, so these may have had symbolic or religious significance, but what about hens?
As the Chickens were not eaten and buried with people this would suggest that these were Game birds for Cockfighting. Game birds extended from across Asia to Europe and are still bred and exhibited. You get few eggs from them and little meat. The British breeds were the most aggressive and successful until banned from fighting.
This is a fascinating overview. However, it is not possible to talk about finds in Israel dating back 7,000 years since Israel has only existed for 75 years. And the first Jews to set up camp in Palestine, after arriving from what is now Iraq, were the Judeans around 3,000 years ago. This has been translated from Egyptian hieroglyphs, as have references to Palestine and Palestinians, 5,000 years ago. Surely in terms of archaeology the Palestinians should not be written out of history because of a colonial venture less than a century ago? Not that evidence of figs in Palestine should be surprising given the history of olives, vineyards and architecture in this country.
To be accurate neither the modern Palestinians not Israelis would be represented in Neolithic archaeological finds, but it is standard practice to refer to the modern territory where the excavation took place.
When I have read about ancient Babylon, now in a country called Iraq, reference is usually made to its origin in Mesopotamia. It may well be standard practice today to never use the word Palestine, but as an avid reader of archaeology I do not believe it is standard practice per se:
The notion that current Palestinians are the descendants of the “pre-existing” population is dubious in the extreme.
Possibly. But Middle Eastern populations have always come and gone in waves. One thing is certain, the European colonists who became Israelis are not descendants of pre-existing populations.
We know there were people called Palestinians in 1947 and we know around a million were driven out by Zionist armies with hundreds of thousands killed. We know that 530 towns and villages were eradicated by the Zionist soldiers. So, sure, some of those people may not have had an ancestry reaching back to ancient times, but some would. Apart from which, how does it matter?
These artefacts are being found in what is ancient Palestine, a land which has existed for 5,000 years. They are not Israeli artefacts, they are Palestinian artefacts.
I know from past experience that trying to point out the complexities of history is usually pointless, but around half of Israeli Jews are not from Europe, but refugees from Muslim lands. They received Israeli citizenship. The Palestinians were not accepted as citizens of Arab countries because those countries preferred to keep Palestinians as stateless sticks to beat Israel with. The only case of such population “swaps” in the C20th when a set of refugees was denied citizenship by their ethno-religious confreres.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
Nice try, zionist. As you well know, the reason many jews chose to leave Arab countries was the campaign of Mossad terrorism against those countries, in some cases waged with local jewish help, aimed at driving them out to give the Ashkenazi invaders plenty of cannon fodder to oppress the sole indigenous (Palestinian) inhabitants of 'israel'.
I doubt it is half but of course Ashkenazi, who are northern European Jews, and Sephardim, southern Europe and the Middle East. And the Ashkenazi run the show and discriminate against the Sephardim and all discriminate against non-Jews.
Why should the Christian and Muslim Palestinians have had to leave their land just because some Zionists arrived to set up their own State? And let us be clear, Israel only has a 'right'to the UN Mandated borders and even they have never been tested in a court of law. Israel occupies and colonises all of Palestine and denies 6 million people human and civil rights.
Wikipedia is not accepted as a source by any respectable university in the world and on many topics, particularly Israel, is pure propaganda. But yes, a complex history and complex topic and none of it is relevant to the fact that Israel occupies all of Palestine and has no right to do so, certainly not without creating one state with equal rights for all.
Moreover, the world pays the Palestinians not to make peace with Israel. They are the world’s only hereditary refugees, because if the stop being refugees they lose hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Hence the refusal to give up the “right of return”, which means no peace with Israel is achievable. Hence also, there have been a series of Israeli peace proposals which get nowhere because the UNRWA money would go away. Arafat’s refusal to countenance anything that risked the UNRWA money essentially destroyed the Israeli left (and his credibility with the US) and gave the “changing facts on the ground” policy way more purchase within Israel.
And Wikipedia is hardly “pure propaganda”. Indeed, if anything the pressure is in the other direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNRWA
Also, yes Mizrahi Jews are about half the Jewish population of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
According to the UN it does have a right to exist. Which various Arab countries have recognised. None of which requires endorsement of any part of Israeli policy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel
Wiki is propaganda on this topic. Nothing from Wikipedia on Israel can be trusted.
And I do not dispute the right of Israel to exist in Palestine as a nation founded through colonisation.
I do dispute the right of Israel to exist as an apartheid State which denies justice, freedom, reparation and human and civil rights to the indigenous people of the land it has colonised.
And, as yet not defended in a court of law, the only borders Israel could claim remain the UN mandate. Israel currently occupies all of Palestine including Jerusalem.
If Australia, Canada or the US did to their indigenous people what Israel does in Palestine there would be outrage and rightly so. You cannot defend the indefensible.