Excellent piece, thank you for taking the time to do this deep dive. I've been curious about the origin of this Two-Spirit term since it became ubiquitous in the Canadian version of the alphabet soup, and skeptical as to it's historical validity given the cultural diversity of American Indian societies, and the implausibility that warrior cultures would afford effeminacy a sacred status. It seems my suspicions were well-founded.
The portrait of Harry Hay was especially revealing. This is a man possessed of rare talents, yet driven by sexual perversion to employ his gifts in service of his appetites. His intellectual project largely served as an elaborate justification for his desires, rather than as a quest for truth; thus, he was vulnerable to self-deception and fabulism, and in the end achieved little more than confirmation bias. Despite this his influence has been immense, since there was fertile ground for his project within a subculture looking to justify its own existence.
Thank you, I'm very happy to hear from people who've been baffled by the term in their real lives. Like many such terms it just seemed to appear whole cloth, but the history is far more colourful than even many progressives believe. Hay is ultimately a tragic character, as you say, blessed with extraordinary talents but shot through with a sexual narcissism so he ended up employing those skills merely to validate himself and his desires. He could have done so much more.
Incredible piece! It's fascinating to see how modern progressives often denigrate "religion" while filling the spiritual vacuum in their lives with romanticized ideals of their own world views, whether that takes the form of science worship, blatant hedonism, or in this case the Perpetual Homosexual. Subscribed and looking forward to reading more of your work.
Fantastic read. I was unfamiliar with any of this and appreciate your work. Of particular interest to me was the idea of gay men elevating traditional women’s work, including crafts, to the level of art. I can’t imagine that playing well with feminists, especially gay feminists. There must be more friction within identity movements than they’d have you believe.
A combined fear of magic and association with dirt, fire and smoke. Blacksmiths often live on the margins of society, often accused of black magic or sorcery. A good example is the Ethiopian folk belief in the 'bouda', blacksmiths who can shapeshift into hyenas.
I don’t know of any direct evidence of it, but the crippled, ugly, antisocial figure of Hephaistos/Vulcan comes to mind.
There’s also some evidence that Bronze Age smiths had widespread arsenic poisoning, which would undoubtedly have been attributed by many cultures to disease or devilry, both of which would support stereotypes of smiths as unclean.
Wow! What a great read. I am immediately linking the points of your article to the "mass grave" hysteria in Canada. How much of Native self-knowledge is actually infused with progressive-colonial interpretations of them? A lot! And I link progressive & colonial with intent. If you read up on the residential school issues you will find similar influences & deceptions. And you'll find big payouts for all those peddling the progressive-colonial interpretations.
First time I've subscribed to a substack. This research was so well done I'm compelled to do some scholarship of my own. Particularly into Carl Jung and the potential link between subversive cultural trends, homosexuality, and the evolution of progressively neotenous natural sexual selection across the developed world. Japan and South Korea come to mind with their cultural exports (T.V./anime/graphic novels) to recipient western nations of fading cultural identity.
There is a wealth of theories and research that one can delve into here. Like you said this subject matter is too large to properly condense into one article.
That's a great honour for me, I really appreciate it. There's def scope for many more articles looking at the period between about 1860 and 1980. Most of the sexual and identity liberation movements had precursors which tapped into psychiatry, occultism, anthropology and intelligent but subversive guys like Jung.
Thank you for this eye-opening and informative piece. I have wanted to delve into the history of this term and phenomena for a while now, but I doubt I would have done so as thoroughly or thoughtfully as you have here.
Too kind. I'm like with a dog with a bone, I read about the history of the term maybe 10 months ago and just had to scratch the itch and properly explore it.
I had read "The Trouble with Harry Hay," so much of this was familiar, but you offer much more on the anthropology side. A gay college friend of mine later became involved with the Radical Faeries and other "men's spirituality" activities in Northern California -- he was very much in the "distinct spiritual nature" group.
Finally, someone who gets it and can explain this much more eloquently than I can!
Even though I don't identify as Native, I think it's disgusting how people warp foreign cultures to fit their own agendas. If I recall correctly, "Two-spirit" was more of a religious tenet/pillar for shamans, but the description of anima/animus fits well to describe it, too.
It's also amazing to see the insecurity behind the idea that homosexuals are INHERENTLY destined for greatness. It's just as ridiculous as saying a specific sex or race is inherently destined for greatness. It's introducing dogma and groupthink where there should be none.
(On another note, the phrases "heterophile" and "homophile" make my skin crawl. I'm so glad we got rid of them!)
Jul 30, 2022·edited Jul 30, 2022Liked by Stone Age Herbalist
Thank you, that was a great read, very interesting. A slight detail: you say that "The Construction of Homosexuality" is from 1998 but from what I can find it's from 1988.
Some thoughts come to my mind. Whether or not one believes in its mythological significance Homosexuality is a constant of human society. Even those societies that have shunned it. Humans always find a way to integrate minorities in one way or another.
Discarding Christian conservative myths about the origins of homosexuality one must assume society have always found a (healthy) way of incorporating gays. The world of traveling professions, craftsmen, theater and film are obvious. But there is an overlooked and important social niche of European live now largely forgotten. The monastery.
That „holy“ uranian man with his special talents is found not only among the jesters but he is a perfect fit for the homophilic brotherhood that is busy with cultivation of artistic endeavors, away from material struggles and violence of feudal society.
Becoming a monk was a legitimate way of life in which homosexuals could contribute to society while avoiding marital commitments. Suffice to say they found likeminded Brothers. I don’t think this is at all far fetched and would go even further that there is an important convergence with „neurodivergent“ people. The abolition of religion leaves these groups without a place in the hierarchy. Paradoxically, The monk, the priest are both outsiders to the community, as well as important upholders of the same. While this romanticization and instrumentalising of Indian culture is questionable, I don’t think the „outsider-In-position-of-responsibility“ is something to be entirely dismissed. It is a little like the „Scythian“ warrior spirit conjured up on twitter, it’s both a complete fabrication and and the same time there is a deeper truth. Americans tend to fetishize these sorts of human archetypes(sry for jungian term;)) and boil them down into simplified ideologies.
Suffice to say Society always had integrate „deviant“ people in implicit and explicit ways. There is always a 5-10% part of society that will not be heterosexual, they won’t go away and it’s important to find a more organic way than pseudo-academic myth making and guilt (pride) tripping normal people into acceptance. So for engaging with his question Hayes should not be condemned. Again why do Americans have to make anything into a cult?
Bah, Murder, rape, and theft are also constants of human society. Hay's attempt to find depth and mysticism in the act of indulging in twisted immorality on the cusp of existentialism is merely a complicated form of rationalization. No different from the man burying the corpses of a dozen teenage girls in his basement as 'protecting them from sin'.
Sorry to break it to you but homosexuality is a biological reality, most social scientist that study human sexuality will tell you of the evidence that pre natal hormones play in the development of one's sexuality and gender expression which include gender and sexual atypical behavior. Even conservative or right leaning experts like Dr. Debra Soh or Jordan Peterson will tell you that most gay people are born gay and though there probably isn't a universal answer for why people are gay it is quite obvious that when we talk about gender atypical individuals who were gender atypical as children (early childhood gender atypical behavior often being a predictor of future same sex attraction) there does appear to be a biological origin.
I used a similar argument against the normalization of 'sex work': just because it is the 'oldest activity' (not profession!), doesn't mean it is moral or good.
So you are using the same logic as Harry Hay, he studied history and found some evidence of acceptance of gender and sexual diversity and used it as propaganda to promote gay rights. Of course in an ideal world one shouldn't need to comb through history in order to convince society that you deserve such rights. You on the other hand would take the history of wide spread homophobia as evidence that it's correct. There are many historical examples in the world when societies where unjust or unfair towards women, people of certain racial or ethnic backgrounds, or people of certain social classes ect. Have we yet to reach a stage where we don't need to reach back to history for permission to be treated fairly and worse do idiots still look back towards history, not to be inspired to create beautiful things but to be inspired to suppress and condemn others just like the "good old days".
What arguments, that was just bs that you pulled out your arse.
"myths of every world-conquering civilisation in history”
What kind of generalized nonsense is that? And as if world conquering civilization was a good enough reason to sustain the homophobia of the past.
"There isn’t a single pro-homosexual traditional mythos in the world; perhaps aside from some forest tribes."
Again, we don't need permission from the status quo of our past to create a fair and compassionate world for everyone in the present. The so called matriarch lead societies that feminist pagans dreamed about were also nonexistent but that shouldn't stop people from promoting a dictionary definition of feminism were women are equal under the law to have control over their own destiny and this has been achieved in the West in my opinion. There are some societies were third gender types are fully integrated into their society, like the fa'afafine of Samoa, the Muxe of Oaxaca Mexico, the Femminielli of Naples Italy among others. Yes These aren't perfect gay utopias like those romanticized by Harry Hay, you don't need an Atlantis style mythos to cling to in order to create a better present or future were there is a space for everyone. I mean the same could be said about how some men romanticize past cultures and their masculine golden ages, a lot of very cartoony assumptions about the past which can be misused by fascists who dream of a better time were certain people were subjugated according to some corrupt vision of natural order.
"Being gay isn’t genetic it’s probably a pathogen of some sort."
Were the hell did you hear that, did you just came up with that on your own?
"I used to believe we were “born this way” until I saw this crucial statistic: homophobia is more genetically heritable than homosexuality; which means homophobia was an evolved anti-pathogenic mechanism, and not a social construction."
Homophobia is not genetically heritable it's culturally heritable and and the fact that homophobia isn't as widespread as it was say in the 50s is proof of this. And it was a statistic that made you realize this?
I suggest you actually read what social scientists, sexologists, psychologists, biologists that study human sexuality have to say about the matter because it seems like your reasoning is just shit you are making up as you go.
Excellent piece, thank you for taking the time to do this deep dive. I've been curious about the origin of this Two-Spirit term since it became ubiquitous in the Canadian version of the alphabet soup, and skeptical as to it's historical validity given the cultural diversity of American Indian societies, and the implausibility that warrior cultures would afford effeminacy a sacred status. It seems my suspicions were well-founded.
The portrait of Harry Hay was especially revealing. This is a man possessed of rare talents, yet driven by sexual perversion to employ his gifts in service of his appetites. His intellectual project largely served as an elaborate justification for his desires, rather than as a quest for truth; thus, he was vulnerable to self-deception and fabulism, and in the end achieved little more than confirmation bias. Despite this his influence has been immense, since there was fertile ground for his project within a subculture looking to justify its own existence.
Thank you, I'm very happy to hear from people who've been baffled by the term in their real lives. Like many such terms it just seemed to appear whole cloth, but the history is far more colourful than even many progressives believe. Hay is ultimately a tragic character, as you say, blessed with extraordinary talents but shot through with a sexual narcissism so he ended up employing those skills merely to validate himself and his desires. He could have done so much more.
Incredible piece! It's fascinating to see how modern progressives often denigrate "religion" while filling the spiritual vacuum in their lives with romanticized ideals of their own world views, whether that takes the form of science worship, blatant hedonism, or in this case the Perpetual Homosexual. Subscribed and looking forward to reading more of your work.
Huge thanks! I agree, the void gets filled in with something, and much of the time its narcissistic trash.
Fantastic read. I was unfamiliar with any of this and appreciate your work. Of particular interest to me was the idea of gay men elevating traditional women’s work, including crafts, to the level of art. I can’t imagine that playing well with feminists, especially gay feminists. There must be more friction within identity movements than they’d have you believe.
Why were blacksmiths despised?
A combined fear of magic and association with dirt, fire and smoke. Blacksmiths often live on the margins of society, often accused of black magic or sorcery. A good example is the Ethiopian folk belief in the 'bouda', blacksmiths who can shapeshift into hyenas.
Was this fear evident in Europe?
I don’t know of any direct evidence of it, but the crippled, ugly, antisocial figure of Hephaistos/Vulcan comes to mind.
There’s also some evidence that Bronze Age smiths had widespread arsenic poisoning, which would undoubtedly have been attributed by many cultures to disease or devilry, both of which would support stereotypes of smiths as unclean.
Wow! What a great read. I am immediately linking the points of your article to the "mass grave" hysteria in Canada. How much of Native self-knowledge is actually infused with progressive-colonial interpretations of them? A lot! And I link progressive & colonial with intent. If you read up on the residential school issues you will find similar influences & deceptions. And you'll find big payouts for all those peddling the progressive-colonial interpretations.
transexual historical revision, many such cases
First time I've subscribed to a substack. This research was so well done I'm compelled to do some scholarship of my own. Particularly into Carl Jung and the potential link between subversive cultural trends, homosexuality, and the evolution of progressively neotenous natural sexual selection across the developed world. Japan and South Korea come to mind with their cultural exports (T.V./anime/graphic novels) to recipient western nations of fading cultural identity.
There is a wealth of theories and research that one can delve into here. Like you said this subject matter is too large to properly condense into one article.
That's a great honour for me, I really appreciate it. There's def scope for many more articles looking at the period between about 1860 and 1980. Most of the sexual and identity liberation movements had precursors which tapped into psychiatry, occultism, anthropology and intelligent but subversive guys like Jung.
Nice article. Harry Hay was a fascinating character; I only explored the surface in a short piece I wrote on the relationship between pedophilia and LGBT: https://toddclass.substack.com/p/were-safe-from-the-pedophiles-for
He was a fascinating character, and perhaps could have been a great scholar and researcher, but alas.
Thank you for this eye-opening and informative piece. I have wanted to delve into the history of this term and phenomena for a while now, but I doubt I would have done so as thoroughly or thoughtfully as you have here.
Too kind. I'm like with a dog with a bone, I read about the history of the term maybe 10 months ago and just had to scratch the itch and properly explore it.
I had read "The Trouble with Harry Hay," so much of this was familiar, but you offer much more on the anthropology side. A gay college friend of mine later became involved with the Radical Faeries and other "men's spirituality" activities in Northern California -- he was very much in the "distinct spiritual nature" group.
An excellent, informative essay, thank you.
I'm really glad you enjoyed it, thank you!
Finally, someone who gets it and can explain this much more eloquently than I can!
Even though I don't identify as Native, I think it's disgusting how people warp foreign cultures to fit their own agendas. If I recall correctly, "Two-spirit" was more of a religious tenet/pillar for shamans, but the description of anima/animus fits well to describe it, too.
It's also amazing to see the insecurity behind the idea that homosexuals are INHERENTLY destined for greatness. It's just as ridiculous as saying a specific sex or race is inherently destined for greatness. It's introducing dogma and groupthink where there should be none.
(On another note, the phrases "heterophile" and "homophile" make my skin crawl. I'm so glad we got rid of them!)
Fun, fascinating read. Academia and progressive activism are a horrible combo.
Thank you, that was a great read, very interesting. A slight detail: you say that "The Construction of Homosexuality" is from 1998 but from what I can find it's from 1988.
Amazing article.
Thank you, it was certainly a labour, not quite of love but def curiosity!
One of the best substacks I’ve read in a while.
Some thoughts come to my mind. Whether or not one believes in its mythological significance Homosexuality is a constant of human society. Even those societies that have shunned it. Humans always find a way to integrate minorities in one way or another.
Discarding Christian conservative myths about the origins of homosexuality one must assume society have always found a (healthy) way of incorporating gays. The world of traveling professions, craftsmen, theater and film are obvious. But there is an overlooked and important social niche of European live now largely forgotten. The monastery.
That „holy“ uranian man with his special talents is found not only among the jesters but he is a perfect fit for the homophilic brotherhood that is busy with cultivation of artistic endeavors, away from material struggles and violence of feudal society.
Becoming a monk was a legitimate way of life in which homosexuals could contribute to society while avoiding marital commitments. Suffice to say they found likeminded Brothers. I don’t think this is at all far fetched and would go even further that there is an important convergence with „neurodivergent“ people. The abolition of religion leaves these groups without a place in the hierarchy. Paradoxically, The monk, the priest are both outsiders to the community, as well as important upholders of the same. While this romanticization and instrumentalising of Indian culture is questionable, I don’t think the „outsider-In-position-of-responsibility“ is something to be entirely dismissed. It is a little like the „Scythian“ warrior spirit conjured up on twitter, it’s both a complete fabrication and and the same time there is a deeper truth. Americans tend to fetishize these sorts of human archetypes(sry for jungian term;)) and boil them down into simplified ideologies.
Suffice to say Society always had integrate „deviant“ people in implicit and explicit ways. There is always a 5-10% part of society that will not be heterosexual, they won’t go away and it’s important to find a more organic way than pseudo-academic myth making and guilt (pride) tripping normal people into acceptance. So for engaging with his question Hayes should not be condemned. Again why do Americans have to make anything into a cult?
End of ramble
Bah, Murder, rape, and theft are also constants of human society. Hay's attempt to find depth and mysticism in the act of indulging in twisted immorality on the cusp of existentialism is merely a complicated form of rationalization. No different from the man burying the corpses of a dozen teenage girls in his basement as 'protecting them from sin'.
Sorry to break it to you but homosexuality is a biological reality, most social scientist that study human sexuality will tell you of the evidence that pre natal hormones play in the development of one's sexuality and gender expression which include gender and sexual atypical behavior. Even conservative or right leaning experts like Dr. Debra Soh or Jordan Peterson will tell you that most gay people are born gay and though there probably isn't a universal answer for why people are gay it is quite obvious that when we talk about gender atypical individuals who were gender atypical as children (early childhood gender atypical behavior often being a predictor of future same sex attraction) there does appear to be a biological origin.
absolutely brilliant reply!
I used a similar argument against the normalization of 'sex work': just because it is the 'oldest activity' (not profession!), doesn't mean it is moral or good.
So you are using the same logic as Harry Hay, he studied history and found some evidence of acceptance of gender and sexual diversity and used it as propaganda to promote gay rights. Of course in an ideal world one shouldn't need to comb through history in order to convince society that you deserve such rights. You on the other hand would take the history of wide spread homophobia as evidence that it's correct. There are many historical examples in the world when societies where unjust or unfair towards women, people of certain racial or ethnic backgrounds, or people of certain social classes ect. Have we yet to reach a stage where we don't need to reach back to history for permission to be treated fairly and worse do idiots still look back towards history, not to be inspired to create beautiful things but to be inspired to suppress and condemn others just like the "good old days".
What arguments, that was just bs that you pulled out your arse.
"myths of every world-conquering civilisation in history”
What kind of generalized nonsense is that? And as if world conquering civilization was a good enough reason to sustain the homophobia of the past.
"There isn’t a single pro-homosexual traditional mythos in the world; perhaps aside from some forest tribes."
Again, we don't need permission from the status quo of our past to create a fair and compassionate world for everyone in the present. The so called matriarch lead societies that feminist pagans dreamed about were also nonexistent but that shouldn't stop people from promoting a dictionary definition of feminism were women are equal under the law to have control over their own destiny and this has been achieved in the West in my opinion. There are some societies were third gender types are fully integrated into their society, like the fa'afafine of Samoa, the Muxe of Oaxaca Mexico, the Femminielli of Naples Italy among others. Yes These aren't perfect gay utopias like those romanticized by Harry Hay, you don't need an Atlantis style mythos to cling to in order to create a better present or future were there is a space for everyone. I mean the same could be said about how some men romanticize past cultures and their masculine golden ages, a lot of very cartoony assumptions about the past which can be misused by fascists who dream of a better time were certain people were subjugated according to some corrupt vision of natural order.
"Being gay isn’t genetic it’s probably a pathogen of some sort."
Were the hell did you hear that, did you just came up with that on your own?
"I used to believe we were “born this way” until I saw this crucial statistic: homophobia is more genetically heritable than homosexuality; which means homophobia was an evolved anti-pathogenic mechanism, and not a social construction."
Homophobia is not genetically heritable it's culturally heritable and and the fact that homophobia isn't as widespread as it was say in the 50s is proof of this. And it was a statistic that made you realize this?
I suggest you actually read what social scientists, sexologists, psychologists, biologists that study human sexuality have to say about the matter because it seems like your reasoning is just shit you are making up as you go.